I'm Darien Slayton-Fleming, and thank you for joining me on Get What You Need and Feel Good About It. Do you find it difficult to ask for what you need? Do you frequently feel misunderstood? Do you have a problem or cause that you would like to learn to manage more effectively? What makes it so hard for us to tell each other how we feel? And how do we speak up for ourselves so we get what we need? I'm Darien Slayton-Fleming, and I'm here to help you How do we do this respectfully so that we honor the needs and feelings of others? Together, we'll explore tips, strategies, and resources that when used mindfully and consistently will improve our results and enrich our relationships.

Hello and welcome back to another episode of To get what you need and feel good about it. Today I'm very excited to welcome Cindy Hollis. She is the manager of membership engagement for the American Council of the Blind. Welcome, Cindy. It's so good to have you here.

Thank you so much, Darien.

Cindy has quite a bio. So with your permission, Cindy, I'm going to begin by sharing a little bit about you.

Okay.

Okay, so besides being the manager of ACV's membership engagement program, she oversees a very successful community platform where over 27,000 Events happen every day of the week throughout the day, and she has created quite a successful program, and we're going to talk about that. She now lives in Flat Rock, Michigan, where she works closely with ACB leaders and members. And she began the ACV community in March of 2020. I remember that time well. I bet you do too, where we were all beginning our charting our unknown experience with COVID And I want to say that her program The community program helped me immensely during a really dark period in my life when we were all becoming isolated and feeling isolated, and I certainly was. Cindy was born and raised in Southern California, and the summer before her senior year, her family moved to Washington where She attended college, raised 2 daughters, and spent over 21 years teaching Braille instruction in the local schools. She also was the development of the community outreach program for the Seattle Lighthouse for the Blind, and then she helped charter a local chapter of the ACV of Washington, where she served as president for 8 non-consecutive years. She also helped develop a very successful statewide leadership program for the American Council of the Blind of Washington. And on the national ACV level, before she became membership coordinator, she served 2 terms on the Board of Publications for the American Council of the Blind, where she helped draft language for the, the Hollis League Braille Free Press Award. She also wrote a resolution that created a youth program for the American Council of the Blind, and she was the first coordinator of that program. She served on multiple committees on the national level, including Resource Development, Membership, and the Auction Committee. And when she has spare time, which I can't imagine she does, uh, she enjoys some of those community activities herself, especially karaoke and the playtime event. I'm gonna want to hear more about that. She cheers on the Seahawks and the Mariners from her home state of Washington and enjoys spending time with family. And what a bio. I just— you, you've, you've got quite a story, and let's get right into talking about that. You have led quite a life, and I'd like to start by saying this show is all about Helping people get the courage and the strength and confidence to pursue your dreams and get what you need and feel good about it. And the reason I developed this podcast was because so quite often we don't speak up for ourselves. We often feel shut down and misunderstood, especially if in a marginalized population such as the disability population, and— but we all have inner strength, and this show is all about helping people get to the point where you can speak up and really pursue the dreams and live the life you would love living. So Cindy has done that. And can we begin then, Cindy, by you telling us a little bit about your growing up years, what it was like to realize that you had a vision impairment, and how you and your family worked through that?

Sure. So, I mean, you know, telling my age, I was born in 1962, and so obviously way before the internet, and There weren't a lot of organized— my mom didn't have what now families could get as far as support and knowing other families that had blind children. So I always— I don't remember not knowing that I couldn't see or couldn't see well. Uh, I had very, very little vision when I was growing up. What I recall is I could see light and dark out of my left eye, so light perception, and I could see shadows and colors out of my right eye. That was gone by the time I was 12, and no vision then in my left eye. And at that point, I had just the light perception in my right eye. And by the time I was about, I don't know for sure, 20-ish, I had no vision. So that's kind of my you know, story as far as my vision goes. Been reading Braille since I was 5. So what I would say is my sister is a year older than me, 13 months apart. She's sighted. I grew up with a brother 5 years younger, sighted. And my mom didn't really know any different other than she just wanted me to live a full life. So I think Maybe some examples of how I was raised. We just did everything. I did things with my sister. If she rode a bike, I wanted to learn to ride a bike, so I did. Roller skating, we roller skated. We went to the ice skating rink, and I never was great at it, but I was good at it. They put me in classes with other students. My mom didn't accept that somebody wouldn't teach me. She just expected them to. And I think that that was really helpful. And then, you know, when I was in my teens, I can remember us going horseback riding. And I feel like this kind of sums up really my mom's attitude. My dad went for the ride, you know. Dad, um, maybe wouldn't have been as tough on me, if you will, as my mom, uh, if my mom hadn't been, right? My mom had expectations for me, and I'm grateful for that. So I have this one memory of camping, and we had many times where we'd go horseback riding and they'd question my ability horseback ride. So my mom said, we're not telling them this time that you're blind. You just get on the horse, do your thing. Okay. So I was probably about 14, got on the horse, and everything was fine. And all of a sudden, the horse assistant person that was getting us ready went to hand me the reins, but I didn't know it because I couldn't see.

Hmm.

And my mom said, Cindy, Reach out your hand and take the reins. So I did. And, uh, that line for me just speaks it all. That person went over and talked to my mom and said, is, is she blind? And my mom said yes. Can she ride? And my mom said she wouldn't be on that horse if she couldn't ride. And, uh, so the person said, okay, uh, I'm gonna ride out to the gate with you guys and If it looks good, you'll be good to go. And we did, and we had an amazing family outing. And that really just speaks to where my mom was and her determination for me to be treated fairly, equitably, and to be able to do the things that I wanted to do. were instilled in me early on in my life, and I think that that's what has really driven me.

Cindy, we have a lot in common. We both had moms who were our cheerleaders, our advocates, our encouragers, and we both grew up before there was an Americans with Disabilities Act.

Yes.

And, and people from our era, you might say, we were like pioneers, kind of figuring it out on our own, and very lucky to have strong moms who were great mentors for us.

For sure.

Yeah. And I love that, uh, that line, reach out and take the reins. It's kind of a metaphor, don't you think?

It is. It Absolutely is, and someday I think I'll write a book and that will be its title, so nobody take it from me.

I think that's really wonderful. So before we move into all of your accomplishments and what you're doing now, we know that a lot of times when people are new to disability or have known nothing but disability and maybe haven't had some of the privileges and support that you and I had find it hard sometimes to think they can do something or overcome barriers. So can you talk about a challenge that you had where you had to overcome barriers and how you did that?

Sure, you know, first I'm going to say that I think it's really important that We remember that our strength needs to come from within, and we can never allow other people to define who we are and what we can do and what our dreams are and all of those things that make each of us as individuals the people that we are and/or who we want to become. And so Sometimes that means that we need to ally ourselves with— align ourselves with the right people. If you are spending time with people that are always negative, it will rub off on you. So I limit my time with people that are not going to fertilize my well-being. And that's really important to me. So I think that being someone who is blind and in the family setting that I was in, in the neighborhood setting I was in, I was the only blind person in my neighborhood. All my friends were sighted, you know, at that time. Right. But I really wanted to be involved with the things that my sister was involved in. She was just, you know, that year older than me, and we got involved in an organization called Rainbow Girls. It's Masonic affiliated, and spent nine years as a Rainbow Girl from the age of eleven until twenty. So probably actually twelve until twenty, almost twenty-one. So, and that was because I became a grand officer and. state— in, uh, at a state level, uh, it's like a state officer. And it prolonged— that happened a month before my 20th birthday, which is when you are no longer, uh, able to be active. And so it kind of kept me in there a little longer. But when I became a grand officer, uh, I, I really wanted to be able to do that role I was grand chaplain, and it was, uh, at a university. Uh, the, the event was like a convention called Grand Assembly, and it was in a big auditorium with bleachers around. And then there was a lot of floor work, meaning I had to walk around. The, the chaplain had obviously some things to say.

Mm-hmm.

During this event, but also had to walk around, um, in and do floor work. And they would have offered me someone to walk with me, and I could have used a cane, but I wanted to do my floor work independently, and I wanted to do it well. I wanted to do everything by the book. And so I spent time learning the floor and came up with a way to walk. I've never counted steps, but I did more counting steps in this event. But I also listened, created cues for when I passed a podium or did things like that.

Yeah.

And I was able to walk the entire floor corner to corner, and we squared our corners, so we had to turn exactly right and all of those things, and went up to the other side. I walked all the way around the room, was able to grab the Bible off the recorder's desk, walk back and walk into where the altar was and set it down, walk back and walk all the way around the room again and get to the ramp and go up to the east.

Wow.

Um, which is the front of the room. And, uh, and I did that in front of, you know, uh, 1,500 people, um, who held their breath probably. I mean, I think they did actually, because when I got to the ramp, I heard the kind of— Um, but I overcame that obstacle by hard work. Determination, spending extra time learning, practicing, uh, in a very short period of time. And were there people that were prepared if I, if I struggled, they would have helped me, of course. But I was able to do it independently and it felt really good. And it's not for everybody, and it's okay if people needed help. It was something I really wanted to accomplish. And I did.

That's just so amazing. You even started your own leadership development as a young girl, and it prepared you for what you have done since then. And you kind of remind me of a couple of the elements of the happiness program that I am now a certified happiness trainer for, so I learned some really wonderful tools. And a couple of them that come to mind right now are questioning our thoughts. You know, is it really true that I can't do this? And going into problem-solving mode and figuring out our own solutions. It's a really great skill. to have, being able to problem solve and really create your own process that now you can share with other people and encourage other people to be part of their own solutions too.

And with that, you know, I think, and I think I naturally do that, what you just explained. But what I would say is that as people try to hone that skill of being able to problem solve and create a process for themselves. Um, the old saying practice makes perfect is still a good one. I think if we really want to become good at something, we practice it, and that includes practicing it in the privacy of our own home. If we want to be good at speaking, then we practice speaking. Think of a topic That you'd like to talk on and give yourself 1 minute to talk about it and see how you do. Record yourself. Those are just some, you know, thoughts about that. Um, if you want to become a better cook, try new recipes in the privacy of your own home, and then you could invite somebody over to enjoy it with you, right? So I think practicing is a, a great tool to have and when we try and build ourselves up.

Right. So was there ever a time that you had to ask for help, and how did you convince yourself that it was okay to reach out for support?

I've asked for help so many times it's not funny, and I think that that's really— I mean, it's not that it's not funny, it's more that, uh, I've asked for help because I, I knew when I needed help, and no one should be afraid to ask for help. That, that's what I really want to convey. Uh, when have I asked for help? My goodness. Uh, when I had children and I wanted them to be able to participate in all the activities that their peers were participating in, and I couldn't drive.

Oh.

And much of the time that I was raising them, I didn't have anybody else to help me in my home. The girls' dad was in their life in the early days, but he also was working. He was sighted, he was working, and he also had— he was bipolar, so he really had a lot of struggles. And so I really couldn't depend on him to do a lot of the things that really I needed. And so, uh, I would ask neighbors, people from church, family, and, uh, I would even take paratransit with my daughter to go to dance. And I would sit in the lobby and I would listen to other moms coming in, and I would strike up conversations and ask where they lived. And if they lived in my area, I was not afraid to ask, would it be possible for you to pick up my daughter to take her to dance? And I connected with people that way so that my daughter would get to— um, whether one of my daughters would get to dance or one would get to Girl Scouts or whatever it might be, because I wanted them to not be held back just because I couldn't drive. And this is way before Uber and—

Right.

You know, some of the things we Today, today it would be, you know, piece of cake, but it wasn't then.

Right. This show is kind of built on some of the key concepts that you have mentioned. This, the first episode of this podcast featured my late husband John Fleming, who was a blind skydiver who wouldn't give it up. even though he was losing his sight, and he didn't want to give up jumping solo. And he gave a speech to the American Council of the Blind in 2005 where he said, if you want something, be determined, be willing to do some creative brainstorming, and be willing to ask for support. And you epitomize all those. All those keys.

I remember that presentation, by the way. So I remember John.

It was really about his success in raising, I don't know, thousands of dollars for the American Council of the Blind with a skydive. But, but his speech was so awesome, and he was quite articulate that day. And those are his keys, and the keys that I think I hope people take away from all of these episodes. So tell us, Cindy, about one of your accomplishments that you're most proud of.

Well, this is an— there's several, I'm proud to say, but, um, I would have to say that the community is probably the one besides, of course, my children. is the one that I am most proud of. When I was in my early 30s, so in the early '90s, I remember that my dream— and it might have even been before that— my dream was to create a community resource for people who are blind and low vision in my local area of Bremerton, Washington. And I envisioned a building where there would be a room with a, like, a library and a room for tech support and a room for games and cards and where people could get together and maybe hold a meeting and things like that, and maybe a kitchen for cooking and—

Uh-huh.

And when I think back, you know, I would have been really limited by who could be there because it would be the people in the area, you know, just the locals, right? Uh, I also didn't really have, I don't think, the experience and the, the wherewithal to be able to pull that off at that time. And, um, but, and, and so God knew that, but I didn't. I— it was just, it was one of my dreams, and I even wrote a business plan at one point.

Wow.

And, uh, but, uh, you know, then life, and I had to really work, and, uh, you know, things happened. So things happened in a way, when I look back now, that really prepared me for COVID, which, you know, who could have known? Uh, none of us. But I think God knew what was going to happen, and he prepared me by putting me in a job at the Seattle Lighthouse. Uh, things changed there for me, and my role. And I was feeling a bit discouraged because they changed my, my role. And I was originally hired to do events. And within 6 months, they moved me to development coordinator, and they kind of threw stuff at me. One of them was tours. Uh, and putting tours together for students, which was, you know, piece of cake. I'd worked in public schools for 21 years, so very used to being around kids and working with teachers and all of that stuff. That was great. And then another one was building their volunteer program, and I had had experience. I'd worked in our church as nursery director and worked on finding volunteers and also paid workers to, you know, work in the nursery. And it was a big church, so, you know, it was a— that was a big job. So I'd done that, but this was very different. They wanted me to work with corporate sponsors, and so banks and insurance companies and stores and that wanted to have their volunteers come. And so I had to help create a volunteer program. And I did that with not just a volunteer form for people to fill out to say they wanted to volunteer, but I actually came up with a volunteer handbook and processes and things like that. So now fast forward, and I took this job with ACB. By the way, my dream job. I love this job so much because I love the organization, and when I knew that they were going to be hiring somebody, I just could not wait to apply. But, and there's some stories around that as well because I almost didn't apply, but I did, and I'm glad I got the job. So 9 months into the job as, at the time, membership coordinator, eventually I became manager of membership engagement. COVID hit, and up until then, my idea of keeping people together connected was in person. And quickly, I had to rethink that and come up with a plan. So I created two events in that first week of isolation where opened it up to leadership and just said, "Let's get together and talk about how are we going to." stay connected with our members when we're all isolating. Those went over so well that, uh, the next week I had reached out to affiliates and said, if you have calls happening and you'd be open to other people coming in, please let me know and I'll put it all together in a little schedule. So we had 9 calls that week, and it just continued to grow. And today we hold 100 calls a week. And it is very community-driven. And we have people from all over the world. So remember my dream of wanting to play games and read and exercise and all of that in a building? We now do it as part of community. People who are interested in teaching crafts can teach crafts. Who want to support people in learning braille are doing that. who want to have book clubs, they're doing that. And, uh, who want to have exercise classes, they're doing that. And we have game nights. And, uh, you know, you mentioned It's Playtime is Friday night. My best friend Mika and I, we do that together, and we've been doing it now for 6+ years, and we have so much fun and have a lot of people come in. to participate and laugh and cheer each other on, and maybe a little heckling in fun. And it's just a really good time. And then on Saturday nights, we do karaoke. And you mentioned that I love karaoke. I do. One of my favorite things to do to relax, to really soothe my spirit, is to sing. And it could be just with music in the house, but it also is often singing, recording myself singing and doing karaoke, and then using those songs for our Saturday night karaoke where everything's pre-recorded. And, uh, so community has brought people from all age groups, all, uh, experiences to either facilitate an event or where they bring their skill and their talent and their time and their interest to community. So they create an event. To people hosting in Zoom, and they've learned how the, the etiquette, the, the way that we want our events to run, and they support the facilitator and ensure that our calls remain safe, respectful, and welcoming. And then we have volunteers that have learned how to stream our events from Zoom onto ACB Media, ACB's internet radio station. And so people can listen on their Alexa devices, they can listen using the ACB Link app, and they can also go to acbmedia.org. To listen from the streams there, or even find many of our events on podcast. And you can even find them like by just saying, uh, play ACB Community Podcast on your Alexa device. Um, and so the community has grown, but it's grown because of all of the volunteers. Yeah. And we have created a training program. We have an amazing team of people. We meet monthly so that everybody stays on the same page, and it is just a powerful— they are connected through a WhatsApp texting group. They support each other, and I really attribute my ability to pull people together as, as has been done with community because of a time in my working life that I wasn't necessarily feeling fulfilled and was maybe— I could have struggled. I could have struggled if I allowed myself to. I could have. And there were moments, fleeting moments, Darienne, where I felt defeated in that job. But I got up in the morning and was determined to make it the best possible day I could make it and give what I could give, even if it was beyond what they expected. Because I really believe my— the expectations weren't very high for me. And so I wanted to make sure that I was living up to my potential, not what somebody else was defining that I should be giving. And so So that really created the volunteer program that I created at the Lighthouse, really set the stage for the work that I have been able to do at ACB with the community and beyond, actually, with our presidents. We've been doing a Hump Day Happy Hour every Wednesday, and that is, you know, a space for our affiliate leaders to come together every week, and we can share with them, but they can also share with each other, learn from each other, grow. And really, all of that is because I did not allow— at a time that could have been a negative time, I did not allow those expectations limited expectations define what the work I was going to do. And it has fed into the job I'm in now. And I am, uh, my beliefs— I am very, very much a strong believer in Jesus and, and my Lord and Savior is who is the one that keeps me really grounded And, um, and I, I just don't believe that any of this was, uh, by happenstance. I do— I believe all of this has happened through a divine intervention. So, uh, you know, that's, that's kind of where, you know, a lot of my strength comes from. Not to mention, of course, my mom, who's not with me anymore, of course.

Right.

But, um, but I— she can't— I carry her with me all the time.

This is just such a beautiful example of how something can come about that's even bigger than—

Bigger and better. Yes.

Than your wildest dreams could ever dream up. And, um, I, I know that the community has helped people make friends, help people develop and improve their skills.

Yes.

And on a personal note, I, during my dark time, which was right about when COVID started, one of my dark times, I decided I was going to attend the community call for visually impaired widows and widowers. And I met someone on the widow Zoom call who had moved away from Oregon and wanted to come back to Oregon. And now we are housemates and he is one of—

Oh, that's amazing.

He's one of the best friends I've ever had in my whole life. And he's so supportive and helpful and we laugh every day. And my son passed away in 2025 and I don't know what I would've done if he wasn't here to—

This makes me smile so much, Darian. I did not know that. And I hear stories like that all of the time where people have met through community, friendships have been forged. Um, and yes, you know, I hear a lot from people who are now facilitating and hosting and streaming who say they never could have imagined doing what they're doing, right, if they had not been given that chance, not been given that opportunity.

Yeah.

And And sometimes it's been encouragement. People will try something and then they want to give up, and I love to encourage them to try it again because we are never as good as we're going to become. Just remember that. We are never as good as we're going to become, and we can only get better.

Right.

And so if you stumble the first time, you now know where you stumbled. You have opportunity to fix it and get better, right? So, uh, you know, people have tried new things and have stepped out of their comfort zone.

Yes.

And stepping out of your comfort zone is, is so empowering. It really is empowering when you can do something you didn't think you could do and you don't know you can do until you try. So try, just try.

So Cindy has talked about some of the community programs, but if you think it, it's probably in the community cost schedule. I mean, it's just such a broad range of interests and everything from crafting to languages. Yes, support groups, skills training. It's an amazing program. So tell our listeners then, Cindy, how they can contact you. Yeah, and how they can join Community.

Sure, I would love to. And all are welcome. That's the first thing. You don't have to be a member of the American Council of the Blind to participate in the Community. And we have a Facebook page, so if you look up ACB Community, you'll find us there. And then if you would like to receive our daily schedule in your inbox, which would come with all the descriptions of the calls and links to join in via Zoom, and it also lets you know whether they're being streamed on ACB Media and which channel, and whether they're in Clubhouse. You can drop an email to [email protected]. [email protected] is also a great way to get a hold of me. So if you want to reach out to me, just drop that email to [email protected]. It goes to me and my assistant Michael, and if it's for me, he'll make sure I see it. So, um, and we would love to get you signed up to receive the daily schedule. If email, it doesn't work for you, you can also call 800-424-8666. Follow the prompts for the community, and you can listen to pre-recorded versions of the daily schedule. And we would just love to have new people join us for sure.

You, you have created such a wonderful community. So as we close, do you have any words of encouragement that you all want to add?

And then you—

and what after you do that, if you want to go ahead and recite your quote and what that means to you, we'll close out this episode.

You bet. First of all, thank you so much, Dariann, for asking me to be here. And I, I really love the opportunity to share some of my story. I know I have so much more that, that I would love to, to share with people, but I think that the thoughts, uh, I heard myself say these words And I, to be honest, I'd never said them before, but you're, you're never as good as you're going to become. And, uh, I, I think that that's something for all of us to remember. We are continuously growing and evolving and becoming. And when we stop growing, when we stop learning, when we stop changing, when we stop becoming, then we are no more. So, uh, take advantage of that opportunity. And also, in the words of my mom, reach out and take the reins. Give it a go.

Yes.

You won't know until you try. And the quote that I would love to share is from Napoleon Bonaparte, and it is, ability is of little account without opportunity. And I love this quote so much because it reminds us that we don't know what we're capable of until we are given that opportunity to try and do it. And so if it means that you need to learn something to be able to do it, or to be able to demonstrate it, to be able to show you're capable of it, but whatever it is, seek out those opportunities to learn and to grow and to show who you really are. And again, that quote is, ability is of little account without opportunity. So let's go and give lots of people opportunities, uh, you know, in our circles, and also take advantage of them as well.

Just wonderful inspiration. Thank you for being on the show today, Cindy.

Oh, you're welcome.

People to hear all about your program and you.

And thank you.

If you, if you were not able to capture the contact information, it will be in the show notes for this episode. And with that, I will say, hope you're having a good summer and come back again in August for another episode of Get What You Need and Feel Good About It. Take care.

Thank you for joining me today on Get What You Need and Feel Good About It. Remember, when you speak up for yourself assertively, you will get what you need and feel good about it. You will also be showing respect. Respect for yourself and for the other people in your life who are important to you. Until next time, try thinking about it like Stephanie LaHart says it. Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean.

Before it gets too late. And the only way to do this is with hope, not hate. Yes, the only way to do this is with hope, not hate.